Difference between revisions of "Pirate Lab/Meeting/28 03 2020"

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* sout Add to the wiki that we are using video conference (Ilja)sout
* <s>Add to the wiki that we are using video conference (Ilja)</s>
* soutSend mail to the person that was planning to come to the lab (Ilja will ask Hgo)sout
* <s>Send mail to the person that was planning to come to the lab (Ilja will ask Hgo)</s>
* sout Inform pirates on Loomio that we experimented and it's workable for the Lab (Renaud will ask Ilja)sout '''Pre-lab''' So, who want to get food together :D
* <s>Inform pirates on Loomio that we experimented and it's workable for the Lab (Renaud will ask Ilja)</s>
So, who want to get food together :D

Revision as of 17:49, 28 March 2020

Pirate Lab March 2020 Toicon-icon-avocado-discuss.svg
Workgroup Pirate Lab
Cleanup old projects
Date Sat 28 March 2020
Time 2:00pm - 5:00pm
Venue meet.jit.si
0101 The Wire
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Pirate Lab March 2020

About this meeting

Meetings are open to everyone! You don't need to be a member to come here!
Pirate Labs can be seen as incubators for pirate projects. This is the perfect place for people to propose their ideas and to launch new projects.

If you have any ideas of projects, or want to help other projects, please do come!

We will use the meeting guidelines proposed by the internal democracy group. Please have a look at them before coming to the lab :)

For the very first time we'll use video conference! You can join on https://meet.jit.si/Piratelab2020-March No extra software is needed if you join from your laptop/desktop via the webbrowser. Please read the Remarks section of the pad before joining!

Languages: English, français, nederlands

To-do list

  1. Define venue
  2. Confirm venue
  3. Create facebook event (then destroy facebook)


Lab starts at 2 pm. For those who want to lunch together before the lab, they can coordinate on the following pad:


Suggestions for the agenda happen on this pad. We strongly advise you to read the pad before coming to this lab!


Pirate Lab Sat 28 March 2020 Wikipage: Guidelines:


Because of Corona, we're going to try this lab using videoconference so please soutjoin at soutsout around 14hsout We switch to

We'll start in this room, but will later split up in subgroups. Each subgroup will have their own room. Make sure you FIRST close the room you are in BEFORE you enter the other room. Otherwise things may get buggy. There is a chat, but history is NOT saved there.

We'll use the pad as a worktool. Here history is saved and we can see each other here. Make sure you add the url of your workgroup here so other people can find you back.

We'll use the Matrix chatroom in the background : in case there is an issue with the Jitsi tool.

  • Why can't just use the chat in the pad ? or just the pad ? We will have to use it anyways...
  • The room allows you to chat, speak, cam and share a screen or window. All of these is optional, so you are not forced to face/voice reveal if you don't want that.

Works with firefox, android, Chrome/Chromium Does not seem to work with webkit :( It seems a good idea to stay with the same browser during the meeting (creates issues with mics)


  • Add to the wiki that we are using video conference (Ilja)
  • Send mail to the person that was planning to come to the lab (Ilja will ask Hgo)
  • Inform pirates on Loomio that we experimented and it's workable for the Lab (Renaud will ask Ilja)


So, who want to get food together :D


  • Renaud
  • Ilja
  • HgO
  • Patrick


  • Several projects have been launched in the last labs and/or on Loomio
    • need more people to fill in => send a newsletter/publish on Mastodon/publish an article on Facebook
    • Instead of asking for more people, concentrate the people we now have
      • The idea is that if we have, for example, three people who each want to do something, but they would also help with the projects of the other people, we could prioritise and then work together on the project that is considered the biggest priority instead of dividing forces or constantly switching to "the latest new thing".
      • Proposal:
        • In short: we would
          • Figure out in the lab what unfinished projects there are that have enough interest of people who actively would work on them,
          • then do a dot-vote (or other voting system) on loomio
          • Then (next lab or before) we can start working on what has highest priority.
        • Concrete: the subgroup would need to
          • Agree that this is a good way to go
            • Possible discussion points:
              • Why dot-voting and not [other method]?
          • List the projects (and maybe somehow lists who would help work on it if it was given priority)
          • Decide on the parameters of the vote (e.g. how long the loomio vote should be open, how many votes each person gets...)
          • Make the loomio thread/vote and invite people so they know about it
          • Decide when/how we start the actual project
      • Dot-vote is that people get X votes that they can share over several proposals. A proposal can be given more than one vote. That way you can give more "weight" to a certain proposal without completely having to drop other proposals. E.g. You have 10 votes and 5 projects. You can give 5 votes to project three, 3 votes to project one, 1 vote to project five, one to project two and none to project four. There are advantages and disadvanntages on dot votes, but I think they are best because
        • it's "good enough" (we don't need the perfect result, we need a good enough result so we have something to start with),
        • easy to understand (both in how it works as well as how we get the results) and
        • already part of loomio so we don't have the overhead of yet another tool
      • Projects I can think of:
        • workgroup decision making:
        • article amnesty:
        • article privacy alternatives:
        • article fingerprints:
        • Working on wiki: responsive theme
        • Working on wiki: Redo content (we've tried this before, we'll really need a good procedure or it will just die out again. Maybe set up several copies of the current wiki so people can do things and then we can decide what to continue with?)
        • There have been subgroups talking about values
        • Mastodon COC: started at
        • There's been talks about organising informal events, but I'm unsure if something still needs to happen there or not:
        • Links between press/media & GAFAM :
      • One side effect can be that we "advertise" the possible projects that way, so maybe we may find other people who want to join in as well, who knows! (I'm not really expecting it, but w/e)
        • We tried this last year with the newsletters and all, but nobody ever come...
  • Coronavirus : article about a Pirate view on the current crisis
    • should talk about : open science (medical research was made available thanks to piracy) ; open-data (many scientists complain about the lack of access to raw data) ; basic income ; privacy concerns with personal data being shared by mobile providers ("why is that a problem? it's an urgent crisis that requires it!") (this is related to mass surveillance) ; online tools for communicating/working together that are not privacy invasive stuff like Zoom...
  • How do we organize ourselves online? For the past years, we learned that physical meetings were really important in the decision making process. With online meetings, there is always a risk to take a decision too fast (e.g. I don't have the feeling to had enough time for deciding which meeting tool would be used for this Pirate Lab). Also, what about people who aren't feeling at ease with technology ?
    • that's for the decision-making process workgroup
      • Yeah, that's what I propose. So Ilja can detail every aspect of his idea for the subgroup he seems interested in, but I couldn't ? :/ exactly :D Roundtable

Lab starts at 14:00 Roundtable where everyone says how they feel, what they want to discuss today (expectations and wishes), and when they will leave

HgO : How do we organize ourselves online? 5PM Patrick : communication on internet, 5PM Renaud : we need people in the workgroups, article about coronavirus, 5PM Ilja : people in the workgroups, instead of trying finding new people, focus on people that have now; communication on the internet, 5PM


underlineHow do we organize ourselves online?underline

  • HgO : online meetings are too fast compared to physical meetings, could we find a process to make online decisions
  • Renaud : putting physical meetings above online meetings is not necessary
  • HgO : maybe what's important is to "meet" verbally and being able to discuss the decision? something else than just text and informal discussion
  • What about accessibility? What about people who don't feel comfortable with online meetings
  • How is that different with physical meetings?
  • Maybe we agreed to need something hybrid between physical and online
    • Invite people at home to participate together with the online meeting
      • Not always possible with a quarantine situation
    • Having a physical meeting and connect to a audio conference so that remote people can follow and participate
    • underlineProjects have been launched : need more people? better tracking?underline

Different projects have been launched, mostly in the labs but not always Always the same people who launched Renaud knew he wouldn't being able to do all by himself these projects... He was just looking for help and people to work on these projects (while he was in holidays) Proposal : better organize and follow the projects, which would give more chance to find new people and realize the project

Proposal : with the people who say they want to work on a project, make priority criterias, instead of trying to find new people first

  • The idea is that if we have, for example, three people who each want to do something, but they would also help with the projects of the other people, we could prioritise and then work together on the project that is considered the biggest priority instead of dividing forces or constantly switching to "the latest new thing".
  • If we decide to prioritize a project, and if this project doesn't move at all, wouldn't we be blocked Being only the four of us to work on a project, how could we make projects interesting enough to have new people. How could we now which projects are interesting to others (if we want that, of course). And maybe the problem is how to welcome people interested in joining the projects ?
  • Advertise new projects via newsletter, in the crews ? There needs information about the projects in order to make them participate easily
  • Document projects better (what is it, who can you reach...)
    • Is there a wiki page (not always required), a loomio, etc. then contact the people working on the project to ask how is the project going, if they are blocked, etc.
  • Steps of the process:
    • Create a wiki page for that cleaning up project
    • Advertise on loomio about what we decided / are doing
    • Cleanup the Active Projects wiki page :
      • Meeting to check what we did, and do the rest if needed : 1pm(13h) on 29th March, online :
        • How do we decide ? By checking the mindmap !
    • List all active/started project that are not on the list yet
    • Complete what's missing for each project (so yes, also this one :grin:)
      • Good description of the project
      • Contactperson is known
      • Pad/loomio/wikipage
    • Close the project on the wiki
  • Remarks and comments during the project of cleaning up :
    • Sub-projects which have their parent project marked as closed are still displayed in the active projects list. It looks like this is a bug in the way the project list is displayed. Ideally, we should fix this, but on the other hand the inconvenience is not big...
    • List of closed projects :
      • (need to contact people to warn them the project is closed on the wiki)


Renaud : liked the tool (mumble) - maybe a problem if someone has mic issues ; focus is more difficult online when the meeting lasts ; worked efficiently ; problem with 1st workgroup because participants didn't prepare the topic so we were just making things up to fill the silence

Ilja: Feels good. Glad we started to work on the projects, because I think this was really a problem. Glad we worked during to the lab because if we only use it to start new things, it will just create more backlog. I agree that it's a good idea to allow people to start sooner so technical issues can be sorted out before the actual start of the lab.

Define Next Lab

When and where will the next lab take place?

  • 25th April, 2pm, online
  • If online meeting : be present some minutes before to solve technical issues

Next Pirate Lab

When & where will the next Lab take place?