Pirate Lab/Meeting/32 05 2019

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Pirate Lab May 2019 Toicon-icon-avocado-discuss.svg
Workgroup Pirate Lab
Date Sat 1 June 2019
Time 2:00pm
Venue Taverne Georges
Rue de l'Ancien Bourg 7
1420 Braine-l'Alleud
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Pirate Lab May 2019

About this meeting

Meetings are open to everyone! You don't need to be a member to come here!
Pirate Labs can be seen as incubators for pirate projects. This is the perfect place for people to propose their ideas and to launch new projects.

If you have any ideas of projects, or want to help other projects, please do come!

We will use the meeting guidelines proposed by the internal democracy group. Please have a look at them before coming to the lab :)

Languages: English, français, nederlands

To-do list

  1. Define venue
  2. Confirm venue
  3. Create facebook event (then destroy facebook)


Usually the Pirate Lab is held on the last Saturday of the month.
However, due to the elections we decided to move it on the 1st June… or 32nd May, as it is still the Pirate Lab of May ;)

Lab starts at 2 pm. For those who want to lunch together before the lab, they can coordinate on the following pad:


Suggestions for the agenda happen on this pad. We strongly advise you to read the pad before coming to this lab!



Roundtable where everyone says how they feel, what they want to discuss today (expectations and wishes), and when they leave:

  • Ilja : Elections
  • HgO : Appeal to State Council + Mastodon migration + Mobilizon
  • Renaud : Future of PPBe
  • Yves  : Tools to allow people to contribute in a light way (so they don't have to invest a lot of time/money)


First group : How to spend the money, how to decide about it

On State council appeal, discussions happened during labs, on Loomio, and (mainly) in Crew BW meeting.

Decision : as there is no objection inside PPBe, we will spend 700€ for this action. HgO sees with Patrick for payment

Rules to decide how to spend the money

  1. 3 pirates propose (or 1 pirate propose and 2 back) or a crew
  2. If there is less than 1.000€ left on the bank account, we don't do spending, so we can pay the servers and have a little bit money if necessary
  3. The proposition must not be against the values/objectives of PPBe (therefore not meet any strong objective) [la proposition doit être conforme aux valeurs/objectifs du PPBe (donc ne pas rencontrer d'objection forte de la part de membres)]
  4. There must be a possibility to debate the proposition both online (on Loomio) and offline (by default at the Lab, otherwise in an appropriate meeting) [il faut que la possibilité de débattre la proposition existe à la fois en ligne (Loomio) et en présentiel (Lab par défaut, sinon une rencontre ad hoc), dans une durée raisonnable]
  • Closure of the decision : still needs to be decided
  • Payment is done on basis of a proof of the decision (report, Loomio discussion... ) and if necessary the bill (refund) [paiement se fait sur base d'une preuve de la décision (rapport, discussion Loomio) et si nécessaire d'une facture (remboursement)]

Examples : Brunch, Appeal to State Council, Mobilizon, Elections, La voix est libre

Second group : Tools to be informed with accurate info

We don't have a clear answer to this question, but there are things alternatives being build to the current tools that aim to solve some of these problems. The conversation was more informal, but examples that came out of it:

  • the fediverse as an alternative to social media platforms (who guide what you see and what not)
  • startpage.com as an alternative to google. Even if it uses google for agregating results, it doesn't personalise, so less chance for a bubble
  • Social media isn't a good way to store and find data. Even though people use this as a way to find information.
  • On fedi we have at least one example of sunbeam.city where their instance is there to build a community, but they also have a wiki for more 'permanent' storage.
  • There is a problem with not being able to blindly trust everyone, so how to know who to trust?
    • There is https://eunomia.social/ but whether this will turn out to be a good or bad thing, remains to be seen. Only other alternative is talking to and trusting people.
  • This isn't a clear-cut answer to the question, but hopefully shows that there are at least people building alternatives. This will hopefully help people involved in the meeting to find answers for themselves

Third group : Future of PPBe

  • Need for new crews [because PPBe has very few people so it's difficult to do projects/promote values, so we need some more people] : at least in Brussels. Need local objectives/motivations/projects
  • Contact Agora : congratulate, inform ourselves on how they work, shared projects
  • What does Antwerp do? We have (basically) no information on their activities
  • Conferences/debates/workshops can be organized more often
  • For Pirate events, have/improve documents to share (presentation of ppbe, registering to mailing-list)
  • Call for candidatures : pour contact@ppbe & treasury

4th group : Mobilizon

  • It's a tool being developed by Framasoft to organize events (replacing Facebook events)
  • Proposition : 100€ by PPBe to support Mobilizon. But before that, Renaud will contact other PIrate Parties to see if it's possible to gather 1.000€ together so we can have a Pirate Party logo on the tool.
  • Deadline : 6th for PPBe to pay. End of crowdfunding for Mobilizon : 10th July
  • Decision/discussion : will also be discusses at next Lab

5th group : IT


  • What needs to be done before we do the new theme?
    1. Install on an empty wiki
    2. if okey => add theme to wiki (prob easiest) OR add old database to new wiki
    3. Changing of content: Out of scope for now

Mastodon to ...?

  • We want to migrate away from Tootsuite
    • Why? The way the tootsuite Mastodon project is run with a Benevolent Dictator For Live, which is not in line with our values. We also see that the way it is run brings a lot of frustrations within the community. We also see that a lot off things are not happening that should be happening (features that are not implemented, safety-stuff that is covered up instead of being fixed)
    • To what?
      • Glitch-soc
        • There's a "main" developer, but no BDFL
        • They have showed that they do implement features that people want
      • Florence
        • The aim is to be community oriented/controlled
        • The project is too young to really have proven themselves
        • Very small community, not sure if it will remain active (because the project is too young)
      • pleroma
        • Too different from Mastodon, doesn't have reliable migration-script
      • Conclusion => We would prefer Glitch-soc
    • How (make the decision)
      • There needs to be consensus from the people on the instance.
        • How do we get that?
      • We'll need consensus from people in the PPBE
        • Loomio? => Ilja will put it on Loomio, we can discuss further there (Proposal: Do we migrate? How we go about including the people on the instance?)
    • How (technically)
      • Wizzard HgO will do it using magic and in line with what the people on the instance and in the PPBE agreed with


Roundtable where everyone says how they feel, what should be improved and what went fine:

  • Yves : didn't find exactly what he was looking for, happy to have participated, had beginnings of answer to his questions
  • Renaud : happy & efficient work, couldn't really do more with the available people at the lab
  • HgO : was expecting more people, don't know how to improve the visibility of the Lab

Next Lab will be in Mechelen, on 29th June