Crew Gent/Meeting/11 11 2012

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Pp Statutes Preparation Toicon-icon-avocado-discuss.svg
Workgroup Crew Gent
Date Sun 11 November 2012
Time 2:00pm
Venue Hackerspace Whitespace
Blekerijstraat 75
9000 Gent
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The Pirate Party is going to get new Statutes. On Sunday in the space, some people of the Pirate Party do some preparatory work.

If you are planning to come, register yourself on the doodle.

When: 14:00 - 11/11/2012 Where: Whitespace Ghent (


Note: these are unfiltered notes; we basically sat together for an afternoon, doing mailinglist conversations but in real life iso via mail. No decisions were made, just discussing ideas with each other. Some ideas were more generally agreed upon than others, but might be hard to extract out of the notes.

Structure buildup of party

  • crews
    • you should be able to join more than one crew !
    • what is the use of membership of a crew; how does it affect your voting power?
  • squads
  • tijdelijk = project
  • permanent = thematic
  • piraten van vershillende crews
  • fleets
    • collection of crews with similar goals
    • temporary
      • can this be responsible for e.g. provincial work
    • does this break bottom up? Yes!!!
    • fleet is created for a common object
    • how will the decision process be?
    • in antwerp inter-crew works
      • people are member of a seperate crew
      • so similar workings as a crew
      • essen did not join; participation is opt-in
      • how many people are on a standard meeting; not that many
  • what goes in statutes, what goes in house-rules
    • statutes should be able to go for 20 years
    • house rules are very adaptable, by "the board" of the "organisation"

membership and privacy

  • should membership of pirate party be private?
  • its troublesome if crews can get a list of members in their area
  • levels
    • private: no access for crews for your info
    • limited: not on the internet, but available to internal members of the party
    • public: on the internet
    • default: private
  • what info of members do we need?
    • some members we have a name, email but no address
    • we would like
      • name
      • postal code (for crew)
      • email adress and/or phone
    • should be wary that each member is only member once

conflict resolution

  • verzoenings en tuch commissie
  • zoals bv in groen?
    • geloot op algemene vergadering
    • extra voorwaarden
    • kunnen straffen uitspreken; die moeten goedgekeurd worden door de partij
      • blaam
      • functie uitzetten
      • lidmaatschap opzeggen
  • czech, germany
    • elected court of arbitrage
  • NOT like PPI
  • proposal
    • 3 elected court members that (supposedly) have knowledge on arbitration, that speak french and dutch on a reasonable level.
    • or maybe: make elected pool of x people of which 3 people are picked by lottery per case
    • 8 decided by lottery. lottery is done at the same time as election.
    • for a certain period
    • decision of court is validated by liquid feedback system;
    • only valid when accepted by liquid feedback

coordination team

  • election for coordination team positions: done per function
  • if responsibilities need to be switched around; the coordination team can propose this, but liquid feedback validation required?
  • external (helping as a member for core things) or internal functions (members of coordination team are doing it)?
    • external: easier to switch responsibilities around
    • internal: greater responsibilites on actors, higher chance that things will get done
  • election coordination team
    • in parts (continuity) or complete new board every elections
    • for specific positions or just membership of board
  • liquid democracy in statutes
    • we mention the principle
    • we do not refer to any implementation
  • on the EGA: vote for "internal rules" containing only:
    • liquid feedback is used to modify the bylaws

region focussed or not

  • coordination team should not be regionally partitioned
    • in the future: no description of region specific management?
    • do we organise explicitly towards regions in the statutes or are we region agnostic
  • languages: coordition team members should speak both dutch and french to a reasonable degree
  • two press-responsibles in core team; per language, which is language specific rather than region specific
  • coordinators:
    • many
    • not region specific
    • make sure both dutch and french are well presented under the coordinators
    • also look to German, English skills?
    • prop: 4 coordinators, each one for one language: french, dutch, german, english
    • prop: 4 coordinators; it'll work
    • prop: 3 coordinators; one per region

  • composition coordination team
    • 1 secretaris
    • 1 accountant
    • 2 international coordinators
    • 3 press responsibles (3 native languages: french, dutch, german)
    • 1 IT/DB coordinator
    • 5 "crew and squad" coordinators

if you can't fill a seat, it stays vacant untill next GA

general assembly

  • who can vote:
    • everyone that is member
    • transitive voting:
      • proxy vote: not more than one proxy vote per present pirate at GA
  • notification about GA: how much time in advance?
    • 2 months before: notification
    • 1 month before: proposals are in
    • 2 weeks before: amendments are in
  • who can call for a GA?
    • coordination team: each year compulsory
    • proposal via liquid democracy for a GA by the pirates: if normal majority, GA happens
  • who defines the order of points in the GA
    • coordination team makes order of the points on the agenda
    • we are open to better system but don't havea any ideas on how to do this better

how does liquid democracy work

  • internal rules define voting system:
    • follow rules of liquid democracy
    • yes/no votes make up %
    • quora of 10%


  • red and green cards system

public governance

  • yes; not structure; not in statutes

list formation

  • who has to vote on the list
    • communal elections:
    • provincial elections
    • regional elections
    • federal elections
    • european elections

proposals 1. per district: east-flanders chooses east-flanders people for flanders election for district east-flanders 2. per election area level: flanders election: everyone in east-flanders elects all district lists 3. all pirates of all of belgium always decide on all lists

  • using liquid democracy other members can raise concerns about lists in other locations and make it a national issue.


region voting