Talk:Main Page test

Notice: The content of this page has been archived here. --HgO (talk) 18:41, 4 December 2016 (CET)

Source d'inspiration

Parmi les wiki qui ont leur petite notoriété dans leur domaine, il y a celui-ci pour les jeux vidéos. Le parallèle entre les crews et les équipes est assez évident, je propose d'explorer cette piste et de créer portail crews inspiré par ce layout.

--Vincent L. (talk) 15:55, 4 December 2016 (CET)

---

Perso, j'aime pas les truc Show / Hide et je préfère de loin (sur un wiki en out cas) click / jump to.

Tant qu'on y est ... est-ce que ça dérange quelqu'un si je vire tout ce qui est au-dessus et qui date de 2014 et avant? Après-tout, c'est quand même dans l'historique de vesion. Au moins on se dépolue les yeux et on s'épargne du scrolling ^_^

J'ai balancé tout ça dans une sous-page dédiée ;) Deux raisons: je comptais relire tout ça à mon aise un jour, et j'aime pas trop supprimer des trucs juste comme ça ^^' --HgO (talk) 18:51, 4 December 2016 (CET)

En revanche j'aime bien l'idée des onglets comme ici.

J'voudrais pas décourrager ... mais pour en arriver là ils en sont à 1000+ templates ... on en a 55 ^_^

Mais du coup ... c'est une mine à idées!

--Tierce (talk) 18:05, 4 December 2016 (CET)

---

Tu proposes d'afficher les équipages sous forme de colonnes/listes, c'est ça ? D'abord la région, puis la province et puis les équipages ? Ou bien juste province, et puis équipages ? Note que certains équipages n'ont pas de ville définie (je pense à la Crew West-Vlaanderen, par exemple) :/ --HgO (talk) 18:51, 4 December 2016 (CET)

C'est surtout l'utilsation des tabs qui me plaît. Entre-temps, mes goûts ont évolué et le layout du Wiktionnaire me plaît par sa clarté et sa simplicité. --Vincent L. (talk) 11:02, 23 December 2016 (CET)

J'aime bien le header, il m'est sympathique :) Ceci dit, je remarque que dans tous les projets de la wikimedia, aucun n'utilise de header global (càd qui reste visible sur chaque page). Je me demande donc s'il ne serait pas plus judicieux de transférer le menu dans la sidebar, tout en nettoyant un peu celle-ci (de toute façon, la sidebar n'a pas été prévue pour stocker beaucoup d'information. Par ex, il n'y a que deux niveaux d'indentation possibles (titre + élements de liste, ou catégories + sous-catégories). --HgO (talk) 11:36, 23 December 2016 (CET)

New main page

We started a project of having new main page that reflects the recent changes I did on the wiki (events, maps, translate extension, etc.).

Currently, I'm still not satisfied with the header banner. I would like to have those information displayed: survival guide, wiki manual, and maybe the Basic Text (although it is already mentioned in the surival guide, and newcomers probably fall on the wiki from the website).

I notice that currently the map seems to attract a lot of attention, which makes the links to help and welcome guide poorly visible, still, although they are in the banner. Possibly, what about adding some icons/images next to them inside the banner? --Valerie (talk) 21:18, 26 February 2017 (CET)

Indeed... maybe we could put them somewhere else ? Before or after the map, for instance ? I agree with the icons, that's a good idea anyway :) --HgO (talk) 08:55, 27 February 2017 (CET)

I agree that the 'welcome links' don't attract enough attention. I would think to just get them out of the banner and put them in a welcome section. The search new bar then can be part of that welcome section as well. -Ilja (talk) 12:34, 27 February 2017 (CET)

I would also like to find a better way to mention the list of crews and how to create a new crew. Right now, it's a bit too serious...

about "create a crew" it is a bit serious indeed and actually it is not about creating a crew but a wiki page for a crew, right? Maybe we should differentiate "I want to create a crew" and "finding the template for a new crew". I think actually the "new crew creation" should trigger a call to other pirates to get help for putting up a crew, so more about establishing communication. --Valerie (talk) 21:18, 26 February 2017 (CET)

Yes you are right about this difference ^^ There is a form for creating/editing the page of a crew, although I didn't finished it yet. Templates aren't needed, although one can still use them.

I'm not sure to understand how we could do this ? Which pirates should be informed of the creation of a new crew ? I don't think it's possible to send an email when creating the crew page. However, I think that there are extensions that allow us to watch a category, such as the Category:Crew, and to get notifications whenever a page is added to that category (ie. when a new crew page is created). --HgO (talk) 08:55, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Moreover, we wondered whether we display crews with an outdated wiki page (such as Crew Namur) or not. I agree that this is a bit disturbing for the visitors, but I think it gives at least some information on those crews. For instance, someone who'd be motivated enough could try to launch the crew again by contacting pirates. However, at the moment, crew pages don't offer an easy way to contact a crew (usually, there is a facebook link, but that's all).

I think leaving non-active crews on the main page gives a distorted image and it might well be disappointing for people who want to join a crew to learn that that crew doesn't really exist any more. I would not list them. If people want information on non-active crews, they should find that information on a list-of-crews-page where we can make a clear distinction between active and non-active crews -Ilja (talk) 12:54, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Actually, I'm not talking about inactive crews, but crews that have an outdated page ! That's different, because there is still activity within the crew, but people seems to be too lazy to update their page, or they don't meet anymore. In those crews, it should be fairly easy to "reactivate" them :)

Inactive crews (such as Crew Brussels) are not listed, for instance ;) --HgO (talk) 14:35, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Ah :D Forget I said anything then :p Yes, I believe listing them would be a good idea then :) -Ilja (talk) 15:43, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Finally, we discussed about the idea of task management system. I'm not sure whether it would be possible, but the idea would be to put a todo somewhere on the wiki, and this task would show up on a list on the main page. --HgO (talk) 15:13, 26 February 2017 (CET)

Is it really useful to have this on the main page? I would rather put this on each crew or project page. Or maybe I don't understand what type of "to do" you have in mind? --Valerie (talk) 21:18, 26 February 2017 (CET)

I'm not sure actually :p but I'd like to find a way to tell people where they can help, basically. I was thinking that maybe a global todo list would be helpfull. At the moment, pirates put their tasks on a project page or after the minutes, but there is no way to track them. You need to remember which pages contain tasks.

I had a look at possible extensions, but none of them is still maintained... So I guess it's not easy to implement :( --HgO (talk) 08:55, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Globally, I love this new version with the map, and the upcoming events. What else comes to my mind... : --Valerie (talk) 21:18, 26 February 2017 (CET)

• A central search bar: to make clear that the best is to type what you are looking for. I would put it before the map, clear and visible, with a short sentence like "Start your journey in the belgian pirates wiki here". I remember you found a nice one, so I guess it's doable?

Ah yes, I forgot about this ! Yes, it is :) Is that good for you? --HgO (talk) 08:55, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Works great, thanks!

• Compared to the current main page, there is nothing here about pirates in general. That's ok for me, if we make clear that the welcome page is the way to go for that type of info... and if all that info is actually accessible from the welcome page (I don't think it's the case yet).

Yes, I think we talked about this in December. I was actually wondering what we should do with the welcome page ? It is not finished yet. For me, if we redirect to the survival guide, it's good enough for now. We could work on the welcome page later on, maybe ? --HgO (talk) 08:55, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Maybe we can integrate the welcome page in the welcome-section I proposed earlier? :) That would make the welcome-page obsolete, and gets all relevant information one click closer to new visitors :) -Ilja (talk) 12:36, 27 February 2017 (CET)

I've made the welcome section :) All relevant information from the welcome page and banner should be in there :) Let me know what you think ;) -Ilja (talk) 13:34, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Thank you ! I've made big changes to your section, because I thought there was too much information. I'd like to keep simply sentences ^^ Also, you were mentionning crews, but I would put that kind of information in the Participate section. Maybe we can add a link to that section, since it's quite hidden by the Welcome section... --HgO (talk) 14:35, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Yes, I love this new text! (And I like the \o/ ) But now it seems like there is to much white-space... And the banner is gone ö Why is the rum banner gone? ö -Ilja (talk) 16:07, 27 February 2017 (CET)

I've put the banner back and put the 'Welcome to the wiki of the Belgian Pirates! \o/' in the banner. I think a banner keeps attention away from other 'clutter' (like the standard top and sidebars that every page has), and generally makes the page look better. If someone doesn't agree, you can always remove it again :p I won't fight over it ;) -Ilja (talk) 16:26, 27 February 2017 (CET)

I did remove the banner because I was thinking it was redundant with the logo on the top of the sidebar. But I like how it is now :)

For me, it's a good thing if there is white-spaces on a landing page, because it prevents the visitor to be overloaded by too much information ^^

I think we are good with the welcome section now, but feel free to make your changes ;) I would like to focus on the participate section now. --HgO (talk) 19:25, 27 February 2017 (CET)

I confirm white spaces are important and it looks good now! About the welcome page: to be discussed face to face to avoid overflowing here but I am not a fan of the present situation: welcoming people on the wiki and welcoming people inside the party are two different functions, each requiring a dedicated page, to my opinion. Less welcome here, just a redirection to a proper page.

I've mentioned the work we were doing in the FB-group to see what people think about it so far. The reactions where positive :) Someone wondered if it would also be possible for the project list to also add a link to the relevant loomio-group (if this exists). I was thinking, if we decide that this would be a good idea, to add a variable to the project sidebar to link to a loomio group so we can extract that information and place it in the list. -Ilja (talk) 12:44, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Nice ! I'm glad people like it :)

Yes, it's possible, but I'm thinking about refactoring the project sidebar template. You can see a start of a draft here. --HgO (talk) 14:35, 27 February 2017 (CET)

Wiki workshop 11th march 2017

Bonsoir ! Voici donc le résultat de notre atelier wiki :)

Nous nous sommes concentrés sur le point de vue de quelqu'un·e qui découvre le wiki pour la première fois.

• Nous avons beaucoup hésité sur l'emplacement du logo, et sur le fait de le garder ou non, car il était redondant avec le logo avec un cœur. Finalement, nous avons décidé de le placer tout en bas de la page.
  • Le fait de placer le logo juste avant la section d'aide nous permet de marquer une séparation claire entre les deux parties.
• Nous avons choisi de mettre l'aide à la création des pages (réunions, équipages, projets, etc.) dans une page séparée, sans doute le guide wiki. Nous pensons en effet que la personne qui se rendrait pour la première fois sur le wiki cherchera d'abord à savoir ce qu'il se passe chez les pirates, où les rencontrer, etc. L'envie de créer du contenu viendra par la suite, s'iel trouve le parti suffisamment intéressant :)
• Enfin, nous avons décidé de renommer la partie "Welcome" en "Help", et de la placer tout en bas de la page, pour les mêmes raisons que précédemment. Nous avons également enlevé la vidéo de présentation de La Louvière, parce que cela ne nous semblait pas vraiment cohérent avec le reste de la page (on passait d'un support texte à un support vidéo, par exemple).

Concernant le menu, nous nous sommes inspirés du Wiktionnaire. Ce menu n'apparaîtra que sur la page principale et a deux rôles :

• D'abord, il résume en quatre liens la page d'accueil pour cellui qui n'a pas envie de tout lire.
• Ensuite, il permet aux utilisateurs habitués d'aller sur les pages les plus utilisées du wiki.

Voilà, j'espère n'avoir rien oublié ^^ Si vous avez des questions ou des remarques, n'hésitez pas à nous le faire savoir ici ;) Ces changements sont bien entendu ouverts à la discussion :)

I plan to replace the current main page on Monday 13th March 2017. Please make your comments before this date. Otherwise, don't worry we will be able to change the page after as well ;)

PS: Sorry, I am too tired to translate all this in English... If you need a translation, let me know and I'll do that when I have time ! --HgO (talk) 23:11, 11 March 2017 (CET)

English Translation

I've used a translating program, so if it did things wrong, feel free to make the necessary changes ;) --Ilja (talk) 07:47, 14 March 2017 (CET)

I checked your translation :) Thanks for this ! --HgO (talk) 12:10, 18 March 2017 (CET)

Good evening! Here is the result of our wiki workshop :)

We focused on the point of view of someone who discovers the wiki for the first time.

• We have hesitated on the location of the logo, and the fact to keep it or not, because it was redundant with the logo with a heart. Finally, we decided to place it at the bottom of the page.
  • Placing the logo just before the help section allows us to mark a clear separation between the two parties.
• We have chosen to put the help in the creation of the pages (meetings, teams, projects, etc.) on a separate page, probably the wiki guide. Indeed, we think that the person who would come for the first time on the wiki would first want to know what is happening at the pirates, where to find them, etc. The desire to create content will come later, if they think the party is interesting enough :)
• Finally, we decided to rename the 'Welcome' in 'Help' section, and place it at the bottom of the page, for the same reasons as above. We also removed the video presentation of La Louvière, because this seemed not really consistent with the rest of the page (we went from a text support to a video support, for example).

On the menu, we were inspired to the Wiktionary. This menu will appear on the main page only and has two roles:

• First, it summarizes in four links the homepage for those who do not want to read everything.
• Then, it allows regular users to go on the most used pages of the wiki.

Here, I hope not have missed anything ^^ if you have any questions or remarks, do not hesitate to let us know here ;) These changes are of course open to discussion :)

Thanks for all the work! And sorry for the late reply but in line with what is said by Ilja, my impression:

• I would have kept the banner. I agree that the logo feels redundant but when one gets on the page he-she does not know immediately what this is. You can keep the logo at the bottom if you prefer. Maybe we should make another image, actually.
• I want to stress there is a huge difference between the Welcome page (I agree it still requires work) and a Help page. The Welcome page is meant to new pirates, to get introduced. The Survival guide is insufficient, and I would point to the Welcome page, even if it is not complete yet - or then leave the survival guide for the moment, I will try to make a more decent welcome page soon... A Help page is when you need help - basically - for instance when you are lost on a wiki and do not know how it works, and are looking how to do things. These two would be in the banner, that would be meant to explain what this wiki is all about.

I agree for a help-section, the 'survival guide' is not what we need. I would like to keep it in plain sight though :p It's light, informal it's funny and it's true ;) I think it's an invaluable text for people who want to get a first idea of the pirates without having to go through dull texts. (+ everyone I know who read it, loved it ;) including me of course :p ) --Ilja (talk) 20:33, 13 March 2017 (CET)

I also agree that we need a Welcome page, but I think that this will take time. I'll try to push for other workshops to work on this, so we can have something interesting in the next months :) --HgO (talk) 12:10, 18 March 2017 (CET)

• But you can publish the page as it is for the moment, we can discuss further and make changes later, no hurry. --Valerie (talk) 08:15, 13 March 2017 (CET)

Welcome/Introduction

One of the things I hated most when I first went on the wiki was that I felt as if you had to find out everything yourself (which is a large threshold). It looked like it was made by and for people who already now what it was and how to use this. The most important thing to me is that people feel welcome and immediately get a sense of what it is they are visiting when they visit the wiki, especially if we want people to use this. For this reason I truly feel that we should have the welcome section back on the top of the page, instead of on the bottom as a help section.
Can we please get that back?
Also, the search bar is a bit redundant, it's three times on one page here :p --Ilja (talk) 06:42, 13 March 2017 (CET)

I agree. It should not necessarily take a lot of space but it should be easy to find help for those who need it. --Valerie (talk) 08:04, 13 March 2017 (CET)

At first, we put the welcome section on the bottom of the page, but it looked strange to say Welcome at the end... So, we changed the title for Help.

I don't really see how we could do that right now. Would it be just a sentence like "Welcome to the wiki of ... " ? Or do you want also to move the whole section on the top (with links to the guides) ?

Regarding the search bar, I agree it's a bit redundant ^^' However, I would first try to solve the Help/Welcome section problem, because if we move it to the top, the search bar problem will disappear :p

What I suggest is to discuss about all this during next Crew BW's meeting and next Pirate Lab. Normally, I should be present at both meetings, so I will gather comments and remarks made there :) I also hope that Thierry and Jean-François will be there, so that they can argue about their changes :) Meanwhile, you can also prepare what you have in mind, either by creating another Main Page test, or by making changes to this page after I released it this evening :) --HgO (talk) 11:13, 13 March 2017 (CET)

I want it the way it was :p We had a joyfull banner and a helpfull welcoming section under which you could immediately see a map with the active crews and upcomming events next to it... It was like >perfect< ö Now it seems like you just come onto some page where I (as a newcommer) wouldn't know what to do...

I really don't understand why the welcome section had to go to the bottom? :/ --Ilja (talk) 18:47, 13 March 2017 (CET)

Like this: https://wiki.pirateparty.be/index.php?title=Main_Page_test&diff=24944&oldid=24916

There were good reasons for this. One was that we think that the guy who first comes to the wiki won't want to make changes right away. They will probably want to find where is the activity, where they can meet other pirates, and also what are the current project. There were other reasons, but to be honest I didn't made this proposal. --HgO (talk) 23:25, 13 March 2017 (CET)

This was, in my opinion, by far the best that we had. We only needed a translated crew-section in the Participate-section and preferably an automated project-list or, if this would be to much work on the short-term, a link to the project-page. (And if someone thinks the banner is to much, than we could also remove the banner as a whole). For the rest, this was perfect ö--Ilja (talk) 19:30, 13 March 2017 (CET)

The problem is that we need to take into account other's opinion. The current main page is also perfect to other people, and there will always be people who dislike some things. If I could release several main page, that would be great because thene everybody would be happy :) --HgO (talk) 23:25, 13 March 2017 (CET)

There :) another Main Page test ;) --Ilja (talk) 20:26, 13 March 2017 (CET)

How about this: https://wiki.pirateparty.be/index.php?title=Main_Page_test2&oldid=25011 ? --Vincent L. (talk) 22:47, 13 March 2017 (CET)

What do you think of this : https://wiki.pirateparty.be/index.php?title=Main_Page_test2&oldid=25013 ? --HgO (talk) 23:25, 13 March 2017 (CET)

I thought the banner looked a bit better because it separated the page itself from the rest of the page. Now I'm starting to think that that was wrong of me :p mainly for two reasons;

• Firstly, it takes up room without real content (which isn't always bad of course, but we may do without)
• And also, pages should blend in with their surroundings, especially the main page. If this is not the case, then the problem is probably more with the surroundings, and trying to 'separate' the page from the surroundings is not a solution then.

So yeah, I agree that it's better without the banner ^^

I also like the idea of having the navigation/menu (for the reasons I saw in the meeting report), but somehow I feel it just doesn't looks right :/ Maybe it's just me :p I'll think about it some more, but I definitely like the idea!

And yes, the Meeting section is not the right place to have forms... I would like some more text, though. Maybe to explain more what crews and projects are (like the Pirate Lab section)?

I'll think about that as well :p --Ilja (talk) 08:23, 14 March 2017 (CET)

Okay, I'm replacing the current main page, but the discussion about the welcome section continue of course :) --HgO (talk) 23:25, 13 March 2017 (CET)

How about this: https://wiki.pirateparty.be/index.php?title=Main_Page_test&oldid=25038 --Vincent L. (talk) 00:00, 15 March 2017 (CET)

But why make it so complicated? :/ We are talking about people who don't know the pirate party and who may well never have been on a wiki (that they know of) besides wikipedia. This Navbox just makes things unnecessary complicated for them. Plus this obscures relevant information, which makes the wiki less transparent. -Ilja (talk) 19:05, 16 March 2017 (CET)

I liked the "You are a noob ? Click me !", but you are right it's quite complex for a newcomer... I kept the idea (small center text) without the navbar. I find this better, aren't you ? :D --HgO (talk) 19:34, 16 March 2017 (CET)

Ooow, yes! And this solves the problem I had with the look of the navigation menu as well ö The Noob-thingie did bring a personal touch that seems to be missing now :) Anyone any ideas to fix that :p ? --Ilja (talk) 21:23, 17 March 2017 (CET)

I'm updating the current main page with the last changes we made (welcome section at the top, and more text in the participate section). Thanks for your contributions !! Of course, this page can still be improved if you think there are things missing ;) I will present the main page, and we will be able to discuss about this page during next pirate lab :) --HgO (talk) 12:14, 18 March 2017 (CET)