Difference between revisions of "Pirate Lab/Meeting/30 11 2019"

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== Reporting ==
 
== Reporting ==
The meeting report will be provided after the Lab
+
=== Roundtable ===
 +
*JF : pirate values, continue work from last pirate lab; main page website;
 +
*HgO : pirate values, how to make people participate;
 +
*Renaud : communication to outside world (non-pirates); how to make people participate (create something like mastodon bot @agenda); Amnesty International article (GAFAM), just a translation, need approval; article about links between belgian press and GAFAM (long term); Facebook page ppbe : what do we do ?; law proposal;  search engine Meta-Press;
 +
*Eric : pirate values
 +
 
 +
=== Subgroup 1 : Values ===
 +
They discussed a lot. Some report should arrive?
 +
 
 +
=== Subgroup 2 : Other topics ===
 +
==== Publication of an article about the links between press/media & GAFAM ====
 +
Context :
 +
*GAFAM are an issue
 +
*press/media said they were fighting for democracy against GAFAM during the Copyright Directive debate
 +
*but press/media are not actually fighting against GAFAM, au contraire
 +
*let's do something (article, communiqué, open letter, petition...) to ask press/media to stop collaborating actively with GAFAM
 +
*some things that corroborate that collaboration :
 +
** cookies, trackers on the press websites are unavoidable (not even respecting GDPR)
 +
** same for apps
 +
** media cover is overwhelmingly about GAFAM and often very pro-GAFAM
 +
*** Example : "[https://www.rtbf.be/tendance/techno/detail_google-photo-comment-taguer-manuellement-des-personnes?id=10376289 Google Photos : Comment taguer manuellement des personnes ?]"
 +
** agreements have been signed between Copiepresse (french- & german-speaking belgian press) and Google in 2012
 +
*** [www.copiepresse.be/images/file/Google/2012_12_12_Copiepresse_communique_de_presse_FR.pdf "Les parties ont aussi  convenu d'utiliser leurs médias respectifs pour promouvoir les services  offerts  par  chacun  d’eux."]
 +
** comments under the articles are only open to people using Facebook; some contests too; many invitations to join Facebook (now more Instagram) on RTBF radio
 +
*** [https://www.lesoir.be/236272/article/2019-07-12/lactualite-en-images-suivez-le-soir-sur-instagram July 2019, Le Soir activates a Instagram account]
 +
*** [https://www.lesoir.be/art/1311516/article/economie/vie-du-net/2016-09-07/comment-recevoir-l-information-au-quotidien-sur-whatsapp-avec-soir September 2019, Le Soir activates a new Whatsapp service]
 +
** articles are almost never about the alternatives (decentralized or free software), and when they talk about it, it can be full of mistakes
 +
*** this [https://www.lalibre.be/economie/entreprises-startup/mastodon-sur-la-pointe-des-pieds-58f89ea9cd70812a658b7670 article from La Libre]for example, a rare mention of Mastodon :
 +
*** "Et… ça va servir à quoi ce nouveau réseau ? C’est toute la question. Sans réel contrôle, il y a le risque de voir ce drôle d’oiseau (c’est une image) servir de déversoir à stupidités (bravo !) ou de mauvaises idées (hum !). Il y a donc là un nouveau Far West numérique où il conviendra d’être prudent et circonspect. A commencer par utiliser des identifiants et mots de passe bien différents de ceux qu’on a l’habitude de créer. Qui sait de quelle manière ils sont sécurisés…"
 +
** who noticed in the news the information about [https://www.amnesty.be/infos/actualites/article/facebook-google-surveillance-generalisee-dangeureuse?lang=fr the Amnesty International report about GAFAM]?
 +
 
 +
In the last months/years, the press overwhelmingly claimed it was fighting for democracy against GAFAM. Let's take them at their word about this, and show them the problem. Either they are unaware of it, blind, or hypocrit. Either case we need to tell them by calling out this collaboration. Who else will?
 +
 
 +
There are 2 risks :
 +
* as we attack the press, we might be assimilated to a populist party (because attacking the press is a trademark of populism) => we need to document carefully each affirmation
 +
* the press might hate us => it's not our objective, we believe in the press; also, we don't have much to lose anyway, our media cover is almost non-existing...
 +
 
 +
What do we do?
 +
* 1st we open a and complete a pad (and organize the info on a wiki page) to document what we can
 +
* for the next steps, we need to think about what concrete actions we can do (open letter, 1 article? several articles?). But we can't do that without completing 1st step.
 +
Que faire ?
 +
 
 +
==== PPBe Facebook page ====
 +
We still have a Facebook page for PPBe. It's basically inactive since months. Also, there is a big gap between the people who (we think) are admins, and the people being active at the Labs, IT-squad, Loomio... There is a risk that both sides contradict themselves ("let's burn GAFAM" vs. "please like our page").
 +
 
 +
We discussed about removing the Facebook page link from our website, but didn't take a decision about it.
 +
 
 +
We'll contact Pirates who are admins to discuss this issue.
 +
 
 +
==== Article about the Amnesty International report ====
 +
[https://www.loomio.org/d/WNRuGFbY/-post-google-facebook-are-a-danger-for-human-rights-amnesty-international- Renaud proposed a short article to be published on our website] about a report Amnesty International made. So far, he received no negative comments but no backing either, so he can't publish even if the writing and the French translation are already done. It was agreed it was a good idea. Ilja will translate during this weekend in Dutch. The article should be published on December, 10, which is the International Day of Human Rights.
 +
 
 +
==== More communication (actually, marketing) ====
 +
People need to know us before they can support us
 +
 
 +
We started referencing different channels to promote Pirates and discussed about the idea of supporting external initiatives (for example [https://contractfortheweb.org/ Contract for the Web], or the [https://joinmobilizon.org/en/ Mobilizon] crowdfunding). But we needed to have a process to decide more quickly to support these initiatives. So we changed the topic of the subgroup.
 +
 
 +
==== Decision-making process on collectively supporting (non ppbe) projects (not about money) ====
 +
By "supporting", we mean "putting the name of the Pirate Party on another project (not about PP money)"
 +
 
 +
Steps that we agreed need to be followed :
 +
*check if the project supports our values
 +
* check if the projects doesn't contradict our values
 +
* let people know before supporting
 +
** using a Loomio thread (we need to remember to invite people on the thread, otherwise they don't have the notification!)
 +
 
 +
We agreed on the 3-pirates rule AND no blocking (and reminded that it's ok to tag people to reach the 3-pirates threshold)
 +
 
 +
We proposed a 14 days deadline by default (but we can adapt, reduce if it's Amnesty/Framasoft, increase if we don't know the org), to support a project in the name of PPBe. This was not approved at the closing roundtable of the Lab because deadlines are a pressure to make things decided too quickly, and we should discuss it AFK too. Maybe in case of emergencies, but then we'd need to define what an emergency is?
 +
 
 +
Also, paying with your own money in name of PPBe is still questionable.
 +
 
 +
Paying PPBe money in name of PPBe => Not using this procedure (there is [https://www.loomio.org/d/xblsDjTK/guidelines-for-how-to-spend-ppbe-s-money a discussion already ongoing] for another procedure)
  
 
== Next Pirate Lab ==
 
== Next Pirate Lab ==
When & where will next Pirate Lab take place?
+
Next Lab will probably happen at the same venue, it still requires confirmation. The date is set to 25/01/2020 (because we usually skip end December)

Revision as of 14:55, 2 December 2019

Pirate Lab November 2019 Toicon-icon-avocado-discuss.svg
Workgroup Pirate Lab
Date Sat 30 November 2019
Time 2:00pm - 5:00pm
Venue Les Triplettes
Address
Avenue des Saisons, 81
1050 Ixelles - Elsene
City
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Pirate Lab November 2019

About this meeting

Meetings are open to everyone! You don't need to be a member to come here!
Pirate Labs can be seen as incubators for pirate projects. This is the perfect place for people to propose their ideas and to launch new projects.

If you have any ideas of projects, or want to help other projects, please do come!

We will use the meeting guidelines proposed by the internal democracy group. Please have a look at them before coming to the lab :)

Languages: English, français, nederlands

To-do list

  1. Define venue
  2. Confirm venue
  3. Create facebook event (then destroy facebook)

Preparation

Lab starts at 2 pm. For those who want to lunch together before the lab, they can coordinate on the following pad:

https://pad.parley.be/p/Piratelab2019-November

Suggestions for the agenda happen on this pad. We strongly advise you to read the pad before coming to this lab!

Reporting

Roundtable

  • JF : pirate values, continue work from last pirate lab; main page website;
  • HgO : pirate values, how to make people participate;
  • Renaud : communication to outside world (non-pirates); how to make people participate (create something like mastodon bot @agenda); Amnesty International article (GAFAM), just a translation, need approval; article about links between belgian press and GAFAM (long term); Facebook page ppbe : what do we do ?; law proposal; search engine Meta-Press;
  • Eric : pirate values

Subgroup 1 : Values

They discussed a lot. Some report should arrive?

Subgroup 2 : Other topics

Publication of an article about the links between press/media & GAFAM

Context :

  • GAFAM are an issue
  • press/media said they were fighting for democracy against GAFAM during the Copyright Directive debate
  • but press/media are not actually fighting against GAFAM, au contraire
  • let's do something (article, communiqué, open letter, petition...) to ask press/media to stop collaborating actively with GAFAM
  • some things that corroborate that collaboration :
    • cookies, trackers on the press websites are unavoidable (not even respecting GDPR)
    • same for apps
    • media cover is overwhelmingly about GAFAM and often very pro-GAFAM
    • agreements have been signed between Copiepresse (french- & german-speaking belgian press) and Google in 2012
      • [www.copiepresse.be/images/file/Google/2012_12_12_Copiepresse_communique_de_presse_FR.pdf "Les parties ont aussi convenu d'utiliser leurs médias respectifs pour promouvoir les services offerts par chacun d’eux."]
    • comments under the articles are only open to people using Facebook; some contests too; many invitations to join Facebook (now more Instagram) on RTBF radio
    • articles are almost never about the alternatives (decentralized or free software), and when they talk about it, it can be full of mistakes
      • this article from La Librefor example, a rare mention of Mastodon :
      • "Et… ça va servir à quoi ce nouveau réseau ? C’est toute la question. Sans réel contrôle, il y a le risque de voir ce drôle d’oiseau (c’est une image) servir de déversoir à stupidités (bravo !) ou de mauvaises idées (hum !). Il y a donc là un nouveau Far West numérique où il conviendra d’être prudent et circonspect. A commencer par utiliser des identifiants et mots de passe bien différents de ceux qu’on a l’habitude de créer. Qui sait de quelle manière ils sont sécurisés…"
    • who noticed in the news the information about the Amnesty International report about GAFAM?

In the last months/years, the press overwhelmingly claimed it was fighting for democracy against GAFAM. Let's take them at their word about this, and show them the problem. Either they are unaware of it, blind, or hypocrit. Either case we need to tell them by calling out this collaboration. Who else will?

There are 2 risks :

  • as we attack the press, we might be assimilated to a populist party (because attacking the press is a trademark of populism) => we need to document carefully each affirmation
  • the press might hate us => it's not our objective, we believe in the press; also, we don't have much to lose anyway, our media cover is almost non-existing...

What do we do?

  • 1st we open a and complete a pad (and organize the info on a wiki page) to document what we can
  • for the next steps, we need to think about what concrete actions we can do (open letter, 1 article? several articles?). But we can't do that without completing 1st step.

Que faire ?

PPBe Facebook page

We still have a Facebook page for PPBe. It's basically inactive since months. Also, there is a big gap between the people who (we think) are admins, and the people being active at the Labs, IT-squad, Loomio... There is a risk that both sides contradict themselves ("let's burn GAFAM" vs. "please like our page").

We discussed about removing the Facebook page link from our website, but didn't take a decision about it.

We'll contact Pirates who are admins to discuss this issue.

Article about the Amnesty International report

Renaud proposed a short article to be published on our website about a report Amnesty International made. So far, he received no negative comments but no backing either, so he can't publish even if the writing and the French translation are already done. It was agreed it was a good idea. Ilja will translate during this weekend in Dutch. The article should be published on December, 10, which is the International Day of Human Rights.

More communication (actually, marketing)

People need to know us before they can support us

We started referencing different channels to promote Pirates and discussed about the idea of supporting external initiatives (for example Contract for the Web, or the Mobilizon crowdfunding). But we needed to have a process to decide more quickly to support these initiatives. So we changed the topic of the subgroup.

Decision-making process on collectively supporting (non ppbe) projects (not about money)

By "supporting", we mean "putting the name of the Pirate Party on another project (not about PP money)"

Steps that we agreed need to be followed :

  • check if the project supports our values
  • check if the projects doesn't contradict our values
  • let people know before supporting
    • using a Loomio thread (we need to remember to invite people on the thread, otherwise they don't have the notification!)

We agreed on the 3-pirates rule AND no blocking (and reminded that it's ok to tag people to reach the 3-pirates threshold)

We proposed a 14 days deadline by default (but we can adapt, reduce if it's Amnesty/Framasoft, increase if we don't know the org), to support a project in the name of PPBe. This was not approved at the closing roundtable of the Lab because deadlines are a pressure to make things decided too quickly, and we should discuss it AFK too. Maybe in case of emergencies, but then we'd need to define what an emergency is?

Also, paying with your own money in name of PPBe is still questionable.

Paying PPBe money in name of PPBe => Not using this procedure (there is a discussion already ongoing for another procedure)

Next Pirate Lab

Next Lab will probably happen at the same venue, it still requires confirmation. The date is set to 25/01/2020 (because we usually skip end December)