Difference between revisions of "Events/EGA:2013-09/Notes"

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'''Click on this link to access to the pads used to produce the following page: '''[https://pad.pirateparty.be/p/EGA2013liege '''https://pad.pirateparty.be/p/EGA2013liege''']
 +
 
== Voting ==
 
== Voting ==
 +
 +
Note takers:
 +
* sandb
 +
* Vincent L.
 +
* fred m.
  
 
Introduced a third option for voting: next to  
 
Introduced a third option for voting: next to  
 
* "yes" (green) or  
 
* "yes" (green) or  
 
* "no" (red)  
 
* "no" (red)  
 +
 
we introduce  
 
we introduce  
* "postponed" (white): voted unanimously yes
+
* "postponed" (white)
  
 +
White option voted '''yes''' unanimously
 +
 +
questions:
 
* Minimum of 2 votes difference, else postponed automatically
 
* Minimum of 2 votes difference, else postponed automatically
 
* Not 50% for green, then it is not yes?
 
* Not 50% for green, then it is not yes?
 
Note takers:
 
* sandb
 
* Vincent L.
 
* fred m.
 
 
Everybody counts votes if close call.
 
General remark: rejected does not mean it definatly rejected,
 
  
 
Discussion on voting; do we go for classic voting and forgo the adaption?
 
Discussion on voting; do we go for classic voting and forgo the adaption?
 
* 21 yes
 
* 21 yes
 
* 3 no
 
* 3 no
* accepted
+
* Accepted, classic voting
 +
* So we will not be using the white paper option
 +
 
 +
Counting:
 +
* Everybody counts votes if it's a close call.
 +
 
 +
General remark:
 +
* Rejected does not mean it definitely Rejected,
 +
 
 +
Proposals: [[File:PP_EGA_september_2013.pdf]].
 +
 
 +
== Motion 1: The Pirateparty Programme ==
 +
 
 +
=== [1.1] Proposal for an "Introduction for the party programme" ===
  
 
{{GaProp|1|Rejected}}
 
{{GaProp|1|Rejected}}
Line 33: Line 49:
 
{{GaProp|4|Rejected}}
 
{{GaProp|4|Rejected}}
 
{{GaProp|5|Rejected|-=19|+=14}}
 
{{GaProp|5|Rejected|-=19|+=14}}
 +
 +
=== [1.2] Freedoms and civilian rights ===
 +
 
{{GaProp|6|Accepted}}
 
{{GaProp|6|Accepted}}
 
 
{{GaProp|7|Accepted|+=23|-=13 }}
 
{{GaProp|7|Accepted|+=23|-=13 }}
 
{{GaProp|8|Accepted|remarks=
 
{{GaProp|8|Accepted|remarks=
Line 40: Line 58:
 
{{GaProp|9|Rejected|+=15|-=24}}
 
{{GaProp|9|Rejected|+=15|-=24}}
 
{{GaProp|10|Accepted}}
 
{{GaProp|10|Accepted}}
{{GaProp|11|+=21|-=17|remarks=
+
{{GaProp|11|Accepted|+=21|-=17|remarks=
 
** this definition can be applied to every company
 
** this definition can be applied to every company
 
** required recount
 
** required recount
Line 57: Line 75:
 
{{GaProp|17|Accepted|+=24|-=11|remarks=
 
{{GaProp|17|Accepted|+=24|-=11|remarks=
 
** Fuzzy language}}
 
** Fuzzy language}}
 +
 +
=== [1.3] Domestic politics and democracy ===
 +
 
{{GaProp|18|Rejected|remarks=
 
{{GaProp|18|Rejected|remarks=
 
** what is "democratie radicale"?  
 
** what is "democratie radicale"?  
Line 77: Line 98:
 
{{GaProp|26|Rejected|remarks=
 
{{GaProp|26|Rejected|remarks=
 
** Same remark as 25.}}
 
** Same remark as 25.}}
 +
 +
=== [1.4] Economics ===
 +
 
{{GaProp|27|Accepted}}
 
{{GaProp|27|Accepted}}
 
{{GaProp|28|Accepted}}
 
{{GaProp|28|Accepted}}
Line 85: Line 109:
 
** Does it mean protectionism?  
 
** Does it mean protectionism?  
 
** note: does not explain, also does not say protectionism}}
 
** note: does not explain, also does not say protectionism}}
 +
{{GaProp|30|Rejected/Postponed|remarks=
 +
** What does "resource" means; answer from author: means "resource based economy"  needs clarification}}
 +
{{GaProp|31|Accepted|+=20|-=13|remarks=
 +
** what's "alternative economy"?
 +
** see examples}}
 +
{{GaProp|32|Rejected|+=14|-=18}}
 +
{{GaProp|33|Rejected|remarks=
 +
** not clear on what it really means}}
 +
{{GaProp|34|Rejected|remarks=
 +
** it's a statement, not a program point or opinion}}
 +
{{GaProp|35|Accepted}}
 +
{{GaProp|36|Rejected|remarks=
 +
** need to change EU laws for that
 +
** the first part is already in 27}}
 +
{{GaProp|37|Accepted}}
 +
{{GaProp|38|Accepted}}
 +
{{GaProp|39|Accepted|remarks=
 +
** universal basic income (everyone)
 +
** what's the definition of basic income?
 +
** also remarked: "factual error, labour is not an economic product"}}
 +
{{GaProp|40|Accepted|remarks=
 +
** minimun wage (working people only)}}
 +
{{GaProp|41|Accepted}}
 +
{{GaProp|42|Rejected|remarks=
 +
** this  is demagogy, ideology, unclear, fuzzy}}
 +
{{GaProp|43|Rejected|remarks=
 +
** implies corporate citizenship? (==a company is having same right as a citizen)}}
 +
{{GaProp|44|Rejected}}
 +
{{GaProp|45|Rejected|remarks=
 +
**awfully stated}}
 +
{{GaProp|46|Postponed|+=17|-=15|remarks=
 +
** European law problem;
 +
** Very hard to realize}}
 +
{{GaProp|47|Accepted}}
 +
{{GaProp|48|Rejected|+=10|-=18|remarks=
 +
** Who is "them"?
 +
** Pirates or citizens?}}
 +
{{GaProp|49|Accepted}}
 +
{{GaProp|50|Accepted}}
 +
{{GaProp|51|Accepted|remarks=
 +
** Should state "a public audit" or something like that}}
 +
{{GaProp|52|Rejected|remarks=
 +
** cannot be done in only one country,
 +
** should explicitely read a wage/profit "ratio".
 +
** is missing clear definition and is quite populist position;
 +
** how would we explain this to a journalist}}
 +
{{GaProp|53|Rejected}}
 +
{{GaProp|54|Rejected|+=14|-=17|remarks=
 +
** lower cap but also upper cap limitation, should maybe say minimally}}
  
30. rejected/postponed ;remarks : what does "resource" means; answer from author: means "resource based economy"  needs clarification
+
=== [1.5] Banks ===
 
 
31. accepted 20 vs 13; remarks: what's "alternative economy" ? see examples
 
 
 
32. rejected 14 vs 18
 
 
 
33. rejected ;remarks: not clear on what it really means
 
 
 
34. rejected ;remark: it's a statement, not a program point or opinion
 
 
 
35. accepted; anonymous
 
 
 
36. rejected ;remarks : need to change EU laws for that; the first part is already in 27;
 
 
 
37. accepted
 
 
 
38. accepted
 
 
 
39. accepted ; remarks :  universal basic income (everyone); what's the definition of basic income ? ; also remarked: "factual error, labour is not an economic product"
 
 
 
40. accepted ; remarks : minimun wage (working people only)
 
 
 
41. accepted
 
 
 
42. rejected; remarks: this  is demagogy, ideology, unclear, fuzzy
 
 
 
43.rejected, except by Kash; remarks :  implies corporate citizenship? (==a company is having same right as a citizen)
 
 
 
44. rejected
 
 
 
45. rejected (awfully stated)
 
 
 
46. postponed ;17 vs 15 ;remarks : european law problem; very hard to realize
 
 
 
47. accepted
 
 
 
48. rejected 10/18 remark:  who's "them" ? Pirates or citizens ?
 
 
 
49. accepted
 
 
 
50. accepted
 
 
 
51.  accepted (rem: should state "a public audit" or something like that)
 
 
 
52.  rejected ;remarks: 1. cannot be done in only one country, 2. should explicitely read a wage/profit "ratio". 3. is missing clear definition and is quite populist position; how would we explain this to a journalist
 
 
 
53.  rejected
 
 
 
54.  rejected 14 vs 17; remarks : lower cap but also upper cap limitation, should maybe say minimally
 
 
 
55. rejected ;remarks: Too vague, should say public financing (with money from the state), also who would finance a bank that has gone bust anyway? ; too anecdoctical, lack of big picture.
 
 
 
56. accepted; remarks: the national part could be left out
 
 
 
57. rejected remarks: why only bankers
 
 
 
Proposal to deal with running-out-of-time: ACCEPTED
 
    - whatever is not voted here today will be submitted on getopinionated
 
    - and will be voted on getopinionated
 
    - and will be valid as if elected on the EGA
 
    - with voting closing before the first november
 
    - only members will be able to vote: each Pirate will receive his/her membership via email, and then registrations will be closed (for security).
 
    - only proposals from the program will be voted
 
 
 
** has been voted yes
 
 
 
58. rejected; unclear: what are policticians, while they are active or allways; only banks? ... ?
 
 
 
59. accepted unanymously
 
 
 
60. rejected
 
  
61. rejected ; remarks: this would mean we have to exit the euro
+
{{GaProp|55|Rejected|remarks=
 +
** Too vague,
 +
** should say public financing (with money from the state),
 +
** also who would finance a bank that has gone bust anyway?
 +
** too anecdoctical, lack of big picture.}}
 +
{{GaProp|56|Accepted|remarks=
 +
** the national part could be left out}}
 +
{{GaProp|57|Rejected|remarks
 +
** why only bankers}}
  
62. accepted (rem: what is a dubious investment ? who defines it ?)
+
We interupted voting because we are quickly running out-of-time;
 +
* a proposal was made to deal with this problem
 +
** whatever is not voted here today will be submitted on getopinionated
 +
** and will be voted on getopinionated
 +
** and will be valid as if elected on the EGA
 +
** with voting closing before the first november
 +
** only members will be able to vote: each Pirate will receive his/her membership via email, and then registrations will be closed (for security).
 +
** only proposals from the program will be voted
 +
* the proposal was accepted,
 +
* a decision was made to continue up until proposal 62 and to end before point "1.6 Labour social affairs".
  
 +
{{GaProp|58|Rejected|remarks=
 +
** unclear: what are policticians, while they are active or allways; only banks? ... ? }}
 +
{{GaProp|59|Accepted unanymously}}
 +
{{GaProp|60|Rejected}}
 +
{{GaProp|61|Rejected|remarks=
 +
** This would mean we have to exit the euro}}
 +
{{GaProp|62|Accepted|remarks=
 +
** What is a dubious investment? Who defines it?)}}
  
EOEGA- End of General Assembly
+
== EOEGA- End of General Assembly ==
  
BIG THX TO ORGANISERS!!
+
* BIG THX TO ORGANISERS!!
 +
* End at 17:50

Latest revision as of 19:09, 6 March 2017

Click on this link to access to the pads used to produce the following page: https://pad.pirateparty.be/p/EGA2013liege

Voting

Note takers:

  • sandb
  • Vincent L.
  • fred m.

Introduced a third option for voting: next to

  • "yes" (green) or
  • "no" (red)

we introduce

  • "postponed" (white)

White option voted yes unanimously

questions:

  • Minimum of 2 votes difference, else postponed automatically
  • Not 50% for green, then it is not yes?

Discussion on voting; do we go for classic voting and forgo the adaption?

  • 21 yes
  • 3 no
  • Accepted, classic voting
  • So we will not be using the white paper option

Counting:

  • Everybody counts votes if it's a close call.

General remark:

  • Rejected does not mean it definitely Rejected,

Proposals: PP EGA september 2013.pdf.

Motion 1: The Pirateparty Programme

[1.1] Proposal for an "Introduction for the party programme"

1:

  • Status: Rejected

2.1:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • French version is leading version
    • translation problem: radicale democratie should be directe democratie

2.2:

  • Status: Accepted

2.3:

  • Status: Accepted

2.4:

  • Status: Accepted

3:

  • Status: Rejected/Postponed

4:

  • Status: Rejected

5:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Votes for: 14
  • Votes against: 19

[1.2] Freedoms and civilian rights

6:

  • Status: Accepted

7:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Votes for: 23
  • Votes against: 13

8:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • better written version of 9

9:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Votes for: 15
  • Votes against: 24

10:

  • Status: Accepted

11:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Votes for: 21
  • Votes against: 17
  • Notes:
    • this definition can be applied to every company
    • required recount
    • how could we make anyone liable to use public facilities?

12:

  • Status: Accepted

13:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • Assange is not a wistleblower
    • better if names were removed
    • Voted as is, but could use an amendment

14:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • Better definition required for "net neutrality".

15:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • It's more or less already in there: but remarks about only postal system and human rights with similar initiative.

16:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • Factual issue in the proposal since the press can be censored, what about private data protection

17:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Votes for: 24
  • Votes against: 11
  • Notes:
    • Fuzzy language

[1.3] Domestic politics and democracy

18:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • what is "democratie radicale"?
    • is it "imposed democracy" ;)
    • We need another word than "radical" (2.1)

19:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Votes for: 14
  • Votes against: 24

20:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • fuzzy "what's being for the referendum?"
    • how do we define referendum?

21:

  • Status: Postponed
  • Votes for: 18
  • Votes against: 16

22:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • what does that mean?
    • we already have justice system

23:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • This is about someone who's been elected, not for candidates;

24:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Votes for: 20
  • Notes:
    • The proposal is too vague, too general

25:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • What do we mean by recognize? (aknowledge existence or legitimity ?)

26:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • Same remark as 25.

[1.4] Economics

27:

  • Status: Accepted

28:

  • Status: Accepted

29:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Votes for: 25
  • Notes:
    • Vague and fuzzy?
    • Ambiguous?
    • What does local economy mean?
    • Does it mean protectionism?
    • note: does not explain, also does not say protectionism

30:

  • Status: Rejected/Postponed
  • Notes:
    • What does "resource" means; answer from author: means "resource based economy" needs clarification

31:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Votes for: 20
  • Votes against: 13
  • Notes:
    • what's "alternative economy"?
    • see examples

32:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Votes for: 14
  • Votes against: 18

33:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • not clear on what it really means

34:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • it's a statement, not a program point or opinion

35:

  • Status: Accepted

36:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • need to change EU laws for that
    • the first part is already in 27

37:

  • Status: Accepted

38:

  • Status: Accepted

39:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • universal basic income (everyone)
    • what's the definition of basic income?
    • also remarked: "factual error, labour is not an economic product"

40:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • minimun wage (working people only)

41:

  • Status: Accepted

42:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • this is demagogy, ideology, unclear, fuzzy

43:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • implies corporate citizenship? (==a company is having same right as a citizen)

44:

  • Status: Rejected

45:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • awfully stated

46:

  • Status: Postponed
  • Votes for: 17
  • Votes against: 15
  • Notes:
    • European law problem;
    • Very hard to realize

47:

  • Status: Accepted

48:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Votes for: 10
  • Votes against: 18
  • Notes:
    • Who is "them"?
    • Pirates or citizens?

49:

  • Status: Accepted

50:

  • Status: Accepted

51:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • Should state "a public audit" or something like that

52:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • cannot be done in only one country,
    • should explicitely read a wage/profit "ratio".
    • is missing clear definition and is quite populist position;
    • how would we explain this to a journalist

53:

  • Status: Rejected

54:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Votes for: 14
  • Votes against: 17
  • Notes:
    • lower cap but also upper cap limitation, should maybe say minimally

[1.5] Banks

55:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • Too vague,
    • should say public financing (with money from the state),
    • also who would finance a bank that has gone bust anyway?
    • too anecdoctical, lack of big picture.

56:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • the national part could be left out

57:

  • Status: Rejected

We interupted voting because we are quickly running out-of-time;

  • a proposal was made to deal with this problem
    • whatever is not voted here today will be submitted on getopinionated
    • and will be voted on getopinionated
    • and will be valid as if elected on the EGA
    • with voting closing before the first november
    • only members will be able to vote: each Pirate will receive his/her membership via email, and then registrations will be closed (for security).
    • only proposals from the program will be voted
  • the proposal was accepted,
  • a decision was made to continue up until proposal 62 and to end before point "1.6 Labour social affairs".

58:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • unclear: what are policticians, while they are active or allways; only banks? ... ?

59:

  • Status: Accepted unanymously

60:

  • Status: Rejected

61:

  • Status: Rejected
  • Notes:
    • This would mean we have to exit the euro

62:

  • Status: Accepted
  • Notes:
    • What is a dubious investment? Who defines it?)

EOEGA- End of General Assembly

  • BIG THX TO ORGANISERS!!
  • End at 17:50